Scandals | Cheating & Lies | Finding Real Spiritual Leaders in a Flawed World

Ever wondered why so many church leaders and couples grapple with maintaining their relationships? From heart-to-heart conversations on our living room couch, we unveil the origin story of "Let's Dig." Our personal journey through flawed foundations in our relationship and our Haitian heritage led us to explore these deep-seated issues that not only impact us but resonate within our community. Along the way, we've been deeply disturbed by rising divorce rates and pastoral resignations that echo our own marital struggles and disillusionment.

Our walk from Bible college to ministry wasn’t the fairy tale we envisioned. We once admired certain church leaders who, behind the scenes, were battling their own demons. Transparency and humility in leadership are more than buzzwords—they're essential for genuine spiritual guidance. We discuss the need for leaders to seek healing and not shy away from showing their vulnerabilities. While this might sound disheartening, it’s a reminder that our faith shouldn't waver when human frailty shows up in the pulpit.

Choosing the right spiritual guides is crucial, and our episode underscores the importance of discernment. We encourage you to prioritize personal Bible study and prayer, ensuring the teachings you follow align with God’s word. Accountability in leadership is non-negotiable; it’s about surrounding ourselves with sermons that challenge us spiritually, not just entertain. Join us in fostering an engaged community where we illuminate dark corners with God’s love, care for one another, and drive towards a stronger, authentic spiritual journey. Let’s grow together and shine brighter.


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Chapters

• 0:00 Reflections on Church Culture and Relationships
• 4:18 Impact of Church Leadership and Transparency
• 18:24 Examining False Leaders and Their Deception
• 30:20 Avoid Deception, Seek True Guidance
• 34:48 Engaging With the Audience for Growth

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

What's up everybody? Let's dig the podcast. Welcome, welcome, welcome, Hello, hi, sac passe to all my Haitians out there Yo Sac passe Na bule, na bule. If you guys don't know, we are Haitian and we represent hard. We love what we get to do, we love who we are and so, actually, speaking of who we are, we started this podcast many years ago. We did a lot of digging, a lot of digging in our relationship, to come to find out a lot of things that were wrong with our core, our foundation and today's conversation. It's actually one of the root reasons why we had to do some digging. We just found out just how we were conditioned. Some stuff that we saw growing up just was just jacked up. Man.

Speaker 2: 0:39

Yeah, sure. And then the other part of it was we were having these deep, heavy conversations with our intimate circle around us, and they were loving these conversations. They were growing from it. It was creating such a positive conversation, and so it was one of the founding reasons and motives behind starting let's Dig podcast was like hey, we want to let you in on our conversations. These are the things we talk about in our home on our couch with our people around our table, with food on the table, like it's just. It's just who we are and what we do. And we love these conversations because it really does bring light to a lot of issues. It really does challenge us, it really causes us to reflect and see hey, where am I dropping the ball? Here's where I can grow. And so this is one of those topics that we really just wanted to open it up. It genuinely started as a conversation on our couch a few nights ago.

Speaker 1: 1:39

Yeah, I think a lot of it sparked up again when we just started seeing what's happening in the church, in the church world, with leaders and pastors and their relationships and marriages. We've seen so many divorces. We came out of Bible college, yeah, and all the couples that started up around the same time as us we could probably count with one hand all the couples that actually stayed with each other.

Speaker 2: 2:05

So true, and we are living in this time, in church culture, where things are just being brought to light. There are pastors stepping down left and right and it is heartbreaking and I know, more than anything, it breaks the heart of God and I know that it breaks his heart. It makes him sad. Um, but as we were scrolling on social media and looking at, um, some pastors in big churches right now, some of the top speakers, they're getting the big checks to go speak at these things. Um, there were just some things that actually broke our heart.

Speaker 1: 2:44

Yeah, and I think what really broke our heart just this past week or this season, just looking into it, was it just sparked memories of when we went through our toughest times in our relationship. You know when, when I originally had the thought of maybe this marriage isn't going to last, when I originally thought several years ago of, like man, maybe she's not the one for me, it was around the time where a lot of the leaders that I was either around or looked up to they were doing it. It almost became a trend and like I don't know things that were happening personally in their lives. You know what I mean Because obviously you know we're looking from the outside in. You know some of them were in terrible relationships. Some of them were in some relationships that even couldn't, that couldn't be restored, that couldn't be saved, or some of them were in relationships where the other partner just didn't want to continue Right. So there's a lot of circumstances.

Speaker 2: 3:42

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 3:43

But I think a lot of those leaders that, or those especially in the church world where you see a pastor or you see an artist or whatever it is, you know, and they put up a post apologizing to all the people that they hurt, because they are fully, 100% aware that people looked up to them, you know, but I think often we don't get a chance to hear from much from the people that were affected by it. You know, maybe in their small circles or in their circles. But you know we were a couple that came out of Bible college I mean we did it by the books right Grew up in church, went to youth group, all those type of things, went to ministry school, met each other ring by spring type of thing.

Speaker 1: 4:30

Like you know, everybody's just trying to find their you know, their ministry partner.

Speaker 2: 4:34

It's so true, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1: 4:35

Who am I going to do ministry with? Everybody's trying to find that person Like in our attention. But deep down inside, everyone just wished for that. We all hoped for that Sure.

Speaker 1: 4:43

You wanted that so we found each other right. There were couples left and right around us. I mean, we're talking 17 years ago and a lot of those couples aren't even together anymore but that's not really what really hurt us or affected us. What affected us was, or were, the couples that we looked up to, that we found out many years later that it wasn't a real relationship or it was dead or it was a loveless marriage for so many years. And when we went through our toughest times, we were looking to some of those couples and it was just like oh, y'all going through it too and you never told us. And that affected us.

Speaker 2: 5:16

Yeah, it did affect us and when we were preparing for this episode, I told you I have a really hard time finding the line and how we should view leaders of the church in the sense that they do hold a higher position, so they are held to a higher standard. In the very same breath we can say they are human and they're not perfect. And so I have a really hard time of like understanding where that um, that grace lies, of like you're a pastor, so you should live a life of um beyond reproaches, like a term we always heard in Bible college.

Speaker 1: 5:58

Like Paul says, that's not. That's in the Bible.

Speaker 2: 6:01

That's biblical.

Speaker 2: 6:02

So you are supposed to live a life above reproach where no one can say anything against you.

Speaker 2: 6:08

But then we live in a fallen world and people do fall, and so I think it's a hard balance of respecting those people, having expectations of them living a certain life, but then knowing if they fall, that cannot affect my salvation, that cannot affect my relationship with the Lord, that cannot affect me. That's between them and God and they and they have to go through that restoration process. They have to go through the repentance process like, which is a huge one. But knowing, like keeping those guardrails for us, when we do see people that we look up to and we do like you know, everybody has that person that they love to go hear a good sermon from. And knowing that the Lord can use anyone and he will use almost anyone. He'll use a donkey in the Bible he used a donkey, like he will use anyone to get his word and his message across. But knowing that that is just a vessel and that if they fall, then I have to do my part of praying for them and knowing that it doesn't change what I received from them.

Speaker 1: 7:14

Yeah, yeah, I think too. Like, um, I think we as leaders need to do a better job of being transparent or when we're not in a good place, without sharing too much information. Right, because you don't want to tell people that you're hurting, when you're hurting sometimes, because there are people that are praying against you, there are people that are against you, right, but I think, for the sake of those that are actually rooting for you or dependent on the health of your relationship, they need to know, like, remember that couple that came up to us asking us like, do you guys argue?

Speaker 2: 7:46

Yes, and I was like yes all the time Not all the time, but like it broke my heart that the church does such a bad job of telling married couples you will fight and that doesn't mean you made a wrong decision, but you're right that even if you are in a place of leadership or you are in a place where people look to you being verbal of like I'm just in a tough season right now there was a podcast released in the last few months and it actually put out a lot of dirty laundry from where we went to Bible college and I was telling you about it. I was telling you about some of the information on it and it was heartbreaking and gut-wrenching of what was going on that was not biblical, was not honoring the Lord and these people are in leadership. And what broke my heart the most was hold on.

Speaker 2: 8:37

I'm gonna get emotional. There are so many ministries now that literally feel the call to cater to people like this, to people that have a responsibility of being a pastor or a leader or a preacher or whatever. There are intentional ministries that will pastor pastors. There are intentional retreats for people in ministry when you're hurting to go and be ministered to. And what broke my heart was that I knew those people would not allow the brokenness, the humble humility. There we go. I couldn't get it. Um, they wouldn't allow the humility in their life to even go and be healed. And that is what's heartbreaking to me of, like the pride in this certain people that we were talking about, that they're just going to stand there and they're going to do what they do and they're going to live their life crooked upside down all the way around and they would never go get healed or restored. And I think that that is a huge loss and a tragedy.

Speaker 1: 9:47

It is. It's almost like um, I just had this imagery right now of it seems like we're in a time right now where the church as a hold is almost like a revolving door or a cup with holes on the bottom of it Very true when there are people getting saved, there are people coming to know who Christ is, but we're losing so much people and I realized why we're losing people. I was just reading I'm going to pull out the Bible, y'all, because you guys know we believe in the Bible. I had to bookmark it real quick because it was so important. And let me see, look, I just bookmarked the wrong one.

Speaker 1: 10:25

Hey, y'all, as you guys know, man, this, this, this whole conversation, is very important to us, man, because, you know, we almost fell as a couple. We almost threw in the towel because we saw so many people around us doing it, we saw so many couples, we saw and you know, I give a lot of respect to those leaders who you know, who knew that they were wrong, the ones that the ones that messed up in a big public scenario. They're the ones that also apologize. You know, like I'll, I'll, I'll drop a name right now. Like you know, I, I give a lot of respect to Carl Lentz For sure.

Speaker 1: 10:56

You know, I give a lot of respect to Carl Lentz because you know what, like he messed up and he took 100% blame for it. Well, he, got caught.

Speaker 2: 11:03

Let's be very clear first.

Speaker 1: 11:04

Yeah, that's true, he did get caught he got caught. Yeah, and so I'm going to talk about that for a second. No, no, no.

Speaker 2: 11:09

I'm going to talk about Because it's a big difference.

Speaker 1: 11:10

And that right there. So that's the full circle of the image that I had that because of the decision that he made, people came to know who God was and that's happening so common right now in the church. That's why I said I feel like it's almost like a cup with holes on the bottom of the end. Because of what he did on the beginning, we lost people as a church. People said man, why should I be Christian? Why should I be saved, man?

Speaker 2: 11:43

They're worse than us right.

Speaker 1: 11:44

So people are losing their faith, people are denouncing Christ and God and Holy Spirit because they're like yo, this was our spiritual guide and our leader, and this guy just got caught, because if he didn't get caught he probably would have been doing a lot longer. He lost people. So now, on the back end, he got restored, he repented, he stayed with his wife and now God is using it for good Right, and so that's great. So now people are coming to know who God is. But I was going to read right here in first or this is Romans, chapter five. It says because one person disobeyed God, many became sinners, but because one other person obeyed God, many will be made righteous. And so we see right here, in the same sense, right, some person going against God's will, god's plan right.

Speaker 1: 12:27

People fall because of that and we could have been in casualty so many different times because of leaders that were in a high, in a high space, and they're, let's say, abusing God's, abusing God's grace, to live a sinful life. And when they, when they repent or turn from it or, in some cases, get caught right, our the body weakens, yeah, and that hurts us because we're part of that. We get affected that way, like we, we get affected, you know. Or there's other guys like you know, I'm going to say his name. Like you know, someone like John Gray who was you know, I'm going to say his name. Like you know, someone like John Gray who was, you know, playing on the fence Right, tiptoeing kind of we're not really sure, allegedly stuff like this. You know, some people say, well, you don't know what fully happened. I should, we shouldn't even be having this conversation.

Speaker 2: 13:14

Right, his relationship with these other women or whatever allegedly whatever Above reproach does not apply to that situation.

Speaker 1: 13:23

No one should even have any questions or doubt, right. But the fact that someone like that just won't step down, it's just step down Like you want to live a certain life or you want to kind of tiptoe or you kind of want to play around or play it. Fine, like I get it. You're human too right, and you want to be able to like whatever. I understand that. Then step down because there's so many of us that are looking to you as an example and so you sinning or you falling justifies it for me. When it's it's, it makes it easier for someone like us to say you know what that person did it. And look at them they're still doing good.

Speaker 2: 13:56

And beyond that, what the Bible says about judgment against those who stay in that seat and in those roles while they're yet sinning and do not turn to repent. I don't want to be in that seat. I would never want to be that person that is so stubborn to stay in my pride and in my space and think that I earned that. When knowing that anything that we do in the name of the Lord is given to us Like it's a blessing. If God uses any video, if God uses any words that we use, like that is him and him alone. I'm just a vessel and like it just it's wild to think about people that live through that and just will stay there. Like even looking at some other people, like I hesitate, hesitate, because there's another person who is a speaker, she is a pastor, she's been married three times and she was speaking and she was talking about how like this is how you have a healthy marriage.

Speaker 2: 14:58

And I am concerned that you didn't do that for the last two. Now, granted, I will say, like the Lord is still using her. But there is something to be said when I look at a podcast that is literally branded for gospel and pastors and ministry people all in messy divorces Like that does something to the church when all we talk about is how everybody got divorced and what'd you learn from it? Is divorce a part of our life and in our world? Yes, can God still use you after divorce?

Speaker 1: 15:31

Absolutely, we've seen it.

Speaker 2: 15:33

And I do think that there is restoration, and I do think there is healing, and I do believe that there is more for people after divorce. With all that being said, though, when it is being so put on a platter of like, hey, if this happens, it's okay, it's literally hurting the body of Christ.

Speaker 1: 15:50

Yeah, yeah and yeah and yeah. It hurts, it sucks, because you know we hear these people having the conversations and you know I know a handful of them and so, like, my goal is not to judge, but my goal is to be able to catch it, nitpick it and apply to us to prevent that from happening in our lives.

Speaker 2: 16:10

And, to be fair, carl Lentz and his wife are not getting enough credit that they actually worked through therapy and were restored and took about four years to do it. That's what the church wants to cheer for. That's what the church wants to see is that y'all did the hard work. It would have been a lot easier for you guys to walk away specifically for his wife to be like you embarrassed me in front of the whole world.

Speaker 1: 16:34

I'm good bro, biblically speaking, right, if we're looking at the um like a biblical view of this, she had all the rights to be like hey, you know what I can? I can just go ahead and serve you these papers. You stepped out on our marriage, you know. So I give them a lot of credit, a lot of respect, and you know, at the end of the day, like you know, we're all sinners, we all fall short right. We all make mistakes.

Speaker 1: 16:57

We all, you know Jesus was tempted, right, it all happens and some of us yes, like some of us have strongholds and some of us have some things that we're still dealing with. So my goal here is not to sit here and say, man, these people need to, you know, like, stop sinning. Yes, I'm always going to say stop sinning. Right, we all need to stop sinning, like the moment we gave ourselves to Christ is the moment we completely die to ourselves and our needs of our flesh and the desires of our flesh. We get completely die to ourselves and our needs of our flesh and the desires of our flesh. We get delivered Right and we change our communities, we change our environment, we change our tribe, our village, those types of things, and every single day we renew our mind, you know, but at the end of the day, I understand we live in a fallen world where the enemy is out there to literally destroy relationships, and so we've seen that happen.

Speaker 1: 17:42

My goal in this conversation is how do we prevent these things from affecting the other people that are looking to it, because I hear a lot of these couples. They're not talking about it to after the fact, like you see what I mean. And so, like what happened. People are getting hurt right when it happens. They go MIA or they take a few years off. They get restored. Those type of things. People, there's casualty, there's bloodshed, divorces are happening because of this, and then on the back end, now they're being restored. They're talking about what happened on the back end and people are like, oh, but that's why I talked about the revolving door, the cup with the hole on the bottom and that's still hurting us.

Speaker 2: 18:20

Yeah, you said something about like that. The enemy is literally doing this, and I was reading in. Where is it? Let me see. Sorry, I lost it. Oh, second Corinthians 11. For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light, so it is no surprise if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. I, I couldn't believe, like to think that there is a strategy on the enemy's plan to literally issue out let me put out some pastors, let me put out some prophets, let me put out some speakers and preachers and put them in that circle to literally cause like deception, confusion lies. You know, it literally says in the Bible that if it is causing conflict all the time, they are being used by the enemy, and so that was just really crazy to me of like man. That is literally a strategy of the enemy to put them in our own camp. It's crazy to pose them as a angel of light and get people to follow them and to create division.

Speaker 1: 19:44

That's crazy that is crazy, um. As you talk about it, I'm reminded of recently, you know um tony evans, who stepped down yeah.

Speaker 1: 19:55

They never really said why and you know what. I could appreciate that. You know. For so many weeks I kind of went back and forth. I was like why aren't you guys telling us? It's leaving our minds for imagination and trying to figure out what happened. But then the other half of me is like you know what? I kind of like that they're not telling us, because what happens is this A lot of times. When it all comes out and they tell us exactly what happens, people fall because of just what they heard. Other people feel justified to do the same thing and then two, three, four years later we hear of the restoration plan, but the people that got hurt three, four years before that are gone.

Speaker 2: 20:38

Right.

Speaker 1: 20:39

They let go of the faith. And so I had this thought the other day. I was like you know what? I kind of respect them for not saying it because I'd rather hear back from him when he's been restored Right, when he's worked it through and walks through the whole process. So we hear about it, what happened and how it was stored, what happens a lot of times we hear about it, it hits the news.

Speaker 2: 21:00

Right.

Speaker 1: 21:00

TMZ, depending on how big the person is. Now everybody's trying to figure out what happened. Some people are in the middle of their crap and now use this for justification to say, man, I'm going to do it too. Right, but they don't know what's happening. And a couple of years later now the person saying, hey, man, here's how you guys can can prevent this from happening. And so that's why I feel like this conversation is so important for us to keep at the forefront, because this is one of the things that at the core of our relationship many years ago when we started. Yeah, right, we use some of these people as examples, as tools. Right, we can call out couples, names right now and say this couple, that couple, that, all these, but at the end of the day, we don't really fully know them. We just know what we see.

Speaker 2: 21:40

Sure, and I think the most important part is that we look at them and know that it is not my job to judge as God looks at them and I judge them to hell or whatever. That's not my job, but what it is. My job is to look at them and to judge by their fruits and then, from what I see, that I don't like, I genuinely pray, like Lord, don't ever let me or God please help me. You know there are some out there, some pastors and people out there, that they look like they're living the best hip hop lifestyle, bet, like 106 and Park, like they are living a wildlife. Photo shoots on photos.

Speaker 1: 22:24

Other ones that just to bring the just to bring it back in the center. There are other ones that look like they live in the MTV life.

Speaker 2: 22:31

That's true, you're right, that's true. It's all of the above, it's not just one culture and style.

Speaker 2: 22:37

All that to say, though, the, the, the brands, the lifestyle the cars, the restaurants, the trips all of that I do believe like is a blessing from the lord and that god does want us blessed to me. I just do a heart check of like don't ever let me get so caught up in it that that's all that matters, and and so I always try to. If I see something in a leader that I don't like, I genuinely try to just make sure like okay, god, let my heart be right for me, like in my walk. Don't let me just want things, don't let me portray that life is all about things, yeah.

Speaker 1: 23:19

Yeah, it's crazy. I just kind of try to like reflect it on myself.

Speaker 2: 23:22

Yeah, make sure my heart stays right.

Speaker 1: 23:25

I got on Instagram the other day and I saw a leader, a ministry leader or you know pastor, and they're posting in such a way that it took a few minutes for me to realize that this was a pastor. Um, and there was. There was nothing immoral, there was no sin involved, like he wasn't doing anything, as just like yo. That's messed up, but it just has me thinking of just like man, like man. I really hope this person genuinely has relationship with God. I hope that this person really does love the lord, yeah, really does love their wife, love their kids, and I had a thought that the day to like man, if social media broke down, if there was no instagram, if we had no phones we have none of this stuff would this perp, would this person still feel like they have their purpose? Because I feel like man we live in a world right now Like, if we're not capturing it for the gram, if it's not something that we could put on TikTok, if it's not something that we can repurpose and cut it up into shorts and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, then, or if there wasn't a camera capturing it, then what's the purpose of it happening? Like, you know what I mean, and so I look at those things and at the end of the day, we'll never know these people. But I will say this that Jesus talked about false leaders and false teachers, false prophets. Right, he said. He said not everyone who says Lord, lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven. Right, he said that. He said some people are going to say God, I did all these things for you, in your name, in your name. And he's like like, yeah, but your heart was far from me. Right, even in the book of isaiah, isaiah talks about it that there's those that worship him with their lips, but their hearts are far from him. He said that their worship is farce, like they, it's all fake, it's all man-made, it's manufactured, right and so.

Speaker 1: 25:12

And then we see, even in the Old Testament where the prophet was looking for the next king, right, Prophet Samuel. And he looked at this one son and said man, he's tall, he's good looking, he's talented, this guy must be the guy. And God said, no, don't even touch him. You guys are looking at the outside. And God said I'm looking at the inside. And so at the end of the day, we won't know really what's in someone's heart, but actually we will, because from the mouth or from the heart? The mouth speaks. So whatever's inside the heart, the mouth is going to speak. Sometimes all you got to do is just watch someone long enough. Listen to somebody long enough and you'll know exactly where their heart is Jesus also said man where your treasure is'll know exactly where their heart is.

Speaker 1: 25:59

Jesus also said, man, where your treasure is, that's where your heart is. So, to your point where we're seeing them use all their money, all their fame, all those type of things Like if they're not putting it towards godly things or things that give God the glory and at the end of the day, again we won't fully know the heart. So some people might be listening to us right now. You say, man, you guys are judging really hard. Listen, man, you know, god told us to be our brother's keeper. Actually, he told us to judge the brothers and sisters to make sure that everybody is living a certain life, godly life, a righteous life. Matter of fact, jesus said if someone is doing something outside of how they should be doing, he said, actually go to them in private and address them and correct them. And if they take the correction, then we've won their heart, we've won their soul Right. And if they still don't do it right, he said, take them to the church, take them to the leaders.

Speaker 1: 26:48

My concern is where is the leadership right now? Where's that standard? I feel like we're living in a time right now where lawlessness is just. It's everywhere. Right now People are justifying their sins, people are saying like God is my judge, don't judge me. Well, actually, jesus said he's like don't judge Right. But he actually said, before you help somebody, take a speck out of their eye. He said check yourself first, look at yourself, take the big old log out their eye. He said check yourself first, look at yourself, take the big old log out your eye. So I'm pulled up right now, man, because some of y'all over here sitting here thinking like what is he talking about? All right, we're going to pull it right now If you have your Bibles turn. All right. This is book of Matthew, jesus talking, chapter seven, and he says do not judge others and you will not be judged, for you will be treated as you treat others. The standard you use in judging is a standard by which you will be judged Right.

Speaker 1: 27:41

And so, first of all, all these standards that I'm holding up right now are the standards that I want to look at other people too, Right, and so he said this. Right here he said and why worry about a speck in your friend's eye when you have a log in your own eye? How can you think of saying to your friend, let me help you get rid of that speck in your eye, when you can't see past the log in your own eye? Hypocrites, and this is my favorite line right here. Jesus says chapter seven. He says first get rid of the log in your own eye, Then you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend's eye.

Speaker 2: 28:18

Then you will see.

Speaker 1: 28:20

Then you will see. So, ultimately, while we have this conversation, because we're looking at our relationship, the times that we almost fell, the times that we almost stepped out on it and we took a moment to say, ok, let's look at that, let's analyze that, where did this even come from? So, now that our eyes can see clearly and we're looking around, we're dissecting all the relationships that we were looking to in the past and realizing how some of them didn't have it right and some of them did have it right. So I want to encourage you guys judge by the fruit and be careful who you following yeah, man, because you, man, you, you will be led astray.

Speaker 1: 28:56

And it's happening. Deception is happening so much right now in this world, especially in the church, more now than ever.

Speaker 2: 29:03

More now than ever.

Speaker 1: 29:04

Don't be deceived man Relationships are key.

Speaker 2: 29:07

A hundred percent and I would say, to make sure that you judge, I'm so grateful for literally the word of God in the sense that the world keeps changing.

Speaker 1: 29:17

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 29:18

Values, traditions, like think about where even. I don't know if this applies to you, naturally, but if you think about for me. We just came back from Indiana I think about the American family and what that meant in 1950s and 1960s, like thinking of what that looks like now to 2024 and living in California. All of that has changed. Everything has been broken down, it's all gone away and now I can say that I can live my life from 1987 to now.

Speaker 2: 29:52

But I have one thing that will always bring me back and will always stay the same, and that the word of God will never change and that all of culture, all the world, can change the church could even change, and it has and it will but the word of God does not change and I'm so grateful that it is literally an anchor to us to keep us grounded so that when society and culture tells us that this is changing and that is changing, I can go and I can fact check that and I can go to the word. And so when you're following these people, when you're listening to preachers and speakers and other pastors speak into your life and you're allowing them to pour into you, that is great. That is what they are there for they are gifts given to the church. But you better make sure that those fruits are lining up with what the Lord says is required of them.

Speaker 1: 30:41

That's right. That's right. We're not sitting here. We're not giving you guys a list of people that we don't recommend. We're not giving you guys a list of people that we say you should follow.

Speaker 1: 30:48

I'm not saying that. I'm telling you read your Bible and pray every day. You know that old school song Read your Bible and pray every day and let the Lord lead you, let the Holy Spirit nudge you. The Holy Spirit is a guide inside of our body. That's what it is. There's been situations that I've been in and I've sat there and I'm just like I feel very uncomfortable right now. Let the Spirit of God lead you.

Speaker 1: 31:11

Do not be deceived. People are coming to you, people are saying things to you, sharing things to you. Take those words and line it up with God's word and say, okay, does this line up with what God is saying? Because I'll tell you, the Bible doesn't give us step by step on how to live your life right now, in this culture, in this season, in your neighborhood, exactly with the person that you're married to. It doesn't say that, but it is a guide. It gives us knowledge. There's wisdom in there. Line it up and the spirit of God is constantly pouring out wisdom and knowledge for us, and so don't be deceived that somebody. If you're speaking, it doesn't matter if somebody is the loudest person, the most flashiest person, they got the most money, they have the gift of God, they have their, their charismatic charisma, it doesn't matter. At the end of the day, we can be deceived. Satan is a deceiver.

Speaker 2: 32:02

And he comes like an angel of light.

Speaker 1: 32:04

So he going to come and trick you. So I'm telling you guys, listen, I'm not going to sit here and say, hey, guys, we're going to drop down in the description all the lists of people we don't recommend. We're not going to do that. I'm not going to do that because you know what, depending on your tribe, depending on your culture, depending on where you are, there might be someone that speaks to you that doesn't speak to me. Respect, go ahead and do that. I'm telling you guys, let those with ears listen. That's what Jesus said. Pray that God gives us wisdom right now.

Speaker 1: 32:30

Do not be deceived. Jesus said there's two different roads that we can go in life. There is this broad road. Everybody's going. If it's the loudest way, it's crowded, everybody's trying to go there. It doesn't necessarily mean it's the way, because he said that road could actually lead to destruction. And he said there's this other road. It's a narrow road and he said a few find it, but when you find it, there's life. We are living in the last days. People are being deceived, is happening in the church. So I want to encourage you guys yo, open up your eyes, open up your ears, open up your freaking bible and read that thing open up your freaking bible what I'm passionate about this man because we're seeing too many people are just mindless sheep, bro, that's, that's true, mindless sheep.

Speaker 1: 33:17

And they just see somebody, something flashy, they're like okay, maybe I'm going to do that.

Speaker 2: 33:21

And here's one thing that I also want to add in, and we can leave it at this you need to make sure, as you're saying mindless sheep I literally had the visual of that of sheep just wandering you need to be under a pastor period and the pastors that you're listening to need to have their own pastors.

Speaker 2: 33:39

So if you're listening to a pastor and they do not fall under anyone and they are not reporting to anyone and no one is shepherding them, you should really really check them against the word and for you, for your walk with the Lord, you need to be under a shepherd. You need to be under a pastor who is going to guide you, who's going to keep you in the right path, who's going to keep you from being led astray by all the people that are false prophets and that are having charisma and just know how to speak well in entertainment, but they're not giving you the truth and the word of God. You don't want sermons that just tickle your ears. You want sermons that will challenge your heart and your walk with the Lord, and so I just I felt like that was another thing like, at the end of all of it, make sure that you have a pastor, and that you are not a wandering sheep and that you are not shepherdless.

Speaker 1: 34:28

That's good. That's good. You guys are liking these episodes. You guys are liking this conversation today. I want to encourage you guys to hit that like button If you're listening to this on Apple, spotify or any of the other audio apps.

Speaker 1: 34:39

I want to encourage you guys. Give us a five star, or give us a two star or three star, depending on how you feel, but don't be afraid to just leave us a little tiny review. You know, you guys know how this works. It helps the algorithm and allows this stuff to be passed out to other people, and so, if you're listening to this on YouTube, leave us a little comment. You guys will see there's links in all the descriptions everywhere. Send us a message. We want to know if this is actually resonating with you, if you guys feel like this is bringing value to you guys. You guys know that we love you guys. You guys know that we are here for you, and God has called us here, on this platform, to be able to shine light in dark places. If we can get better at focusing on God, loving his people and taking care of ourselves, man, we will see this world get a lot stronger, cleaner, better in our relationship. So let's keep growing stronger together, y'all, let's dig.